[Public WebGL] Re: webgl/swiftshader
Tue Feb 21 15:49:40 PST 2012
Why not just introduce some flag which indicates whether the implementation
is rendering with specialised hardware (GPU) or not (software)? Then each
application developer can test their individual apps both ways and see if
for practical purposes both work, or if only one works. Then each
developer can either support both, require GPU support, or have some
notification that says something like "Your computer can run this content,
but it may be slow. Are you sure you want to continue?" By default it
would use whatever's available so the developer would have to intervene to
either require GPU support or introduce a notification.
Sure, some beefy CPUs may be able to just out-do low-class GPU hardware,
but I think the vast majority of software-rendering cases will be ordinary
low-mid power computers with perfectly capable GPUs that are blacklisted
due to old drivers. (Judging by the mozilla link earlier, 50% of people
don't get hardware accelerated WebGL.) As noted previously, most of the
time any GPU will far outdo software rendering. So for practical purposes
a flag indicating software rendering is a good heuristic that rendering
will basically be slow.
IMO running performance tests on startup to judge performance is out of the
question because every single different application needs its own
performance test. This likely will require special coding and the
developer may not even create a fair representation, resulting in bad data
and the wrong renderer chosen. Personally I have no idea how I would
create a single fair test for any particular game that always chooses the
best renderer for the vast array of system configurations out there. Think
about a game with loads of different levels, each with different rendering
characteristics and heavily dependent on user input and skill level - how
do you make a worthwhile five second test for that? I don't think it can
be solved by frameworks either, because if there was some generalised test
that could always pick the best renderer, we wouldn't have this problem in
the first place.
So I think there really ought to be a software/hardware rendering flag, and
that's a good heuristic. For eye candy on a web page, just don't show it
if it's going to be software rendered, and fall back to an image or video.
For a simple game, you can probably get by with software rendering. For
Crysis 3: Browser Wars, require hardware acceleration. That's still better
than the "no WebGL, no content" situation that we face without SwiftShader.
On 21 February 2012 15:36, John Tamplin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Steve Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> If you're doing something like selling widgets on the Internet - then
>> users with GPU's should get a 3D rendering of your new SuperWidget-3000
>> that they can spin around and interact with - and low end users should get
>> a movie clip or a photo gallery of still images or something. If you care
>> enough about getting your message to all of the users out there then this
>> is a small price to pay.
>> But - if you're a game designer - there is nothing worse than to find a
>> valid WebGL environment and then discover that it takes 30 seconds to
>> render a single frame and to have to resort to disgusting timing tricks to
>> try to deduce whether this is a GPU or not. I'd *much* rather a system
>> report "Sorry, you need a machine that can run WebGL" than to have it try
>> to run my game at 0.03Hz.
> Maybe the answer is to have some way to ask the question "I have x
> triangles and need y fps and features z, what is the likelihood this WebGL
> implementation can deliver that". Given that, the app can make a
> reasonable decision of telling the user "sorry, you need to upgrade to use
> this app", running as-is, or scaling back.
> As I understand it, there isn't any way to do this now other than to try
> it and time the result, which gives a poor user experience anyway. The
> alternative is to detect and whitelist configurations, or leave it up to
> the user -- "here is the known-good version, you can try the WebGL version
> if you are brave".
> John A. Tamplin
> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
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