From pya...@ Tue Jan 8 04:16:20 2019 From: pya...@ (=?UTF-8?Q?Florian_B=C3=B6sch?=) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:16:20 +0100 Subject: [Public WebGL] Safari WebGL issues Message-ID: There's a set of recurring issues that keeps happening on Safari (both on desktop and mobile) for WebGL 1. Frequently there are updates which break WebGL on a driver (in OSX/iOS updates) or frontend level (in Safari updates). These updates are usually unannounced and it can happen at minor or major updates, and whatever they break is often not fixed, or fixes are very slow coming. 2. Performance of WebGL on Safari is generally poor 3. Due to poin #1 and the accumulation of quirks, broken things and lack of features working with WebGL on Safari is very cumbersome Modelo (https://modelo.io/) has dropped WebGL support entirely for Apple devices. Inzept3D (https://inzept3d.com/) is struggling to justify the engineering effort required to make things work on Apple devices, since the payoff at best is a severely restricted/dumbed down implementation that runs slowly. Doubtlessly others have experienced similar issues. It is a sorry state of affairs that Apples WebGL implementation is so unsatisfactory, for WebGL is meant as something that "just works" (that's the "Web" part in WebGL). I'd plead for Apple to make things right, and become an excellent WebGL citizen offering a compelling implementation that achieves a high conformance level, few quirks and good performance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jav...@ Tue Jan 8 04:28:44 2019 From: jav...@ (Javi Agenjo) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:28:44 +0100 Subject: [Public WebGL] Safari WebGL issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Their official response will be that they are migrating to WebGPU and do not want to put more resources in WebGL. It is sad but for me it seems like a dead-end to support safari. On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 1:17 PM Florian B?sch wrote: > There's a set of recurring issues that keeps happening on Safari (both on > desktop and mobile) for WebGL > > 1. Frequently there are updates which break WebGL on a driver (in > OSX/iOS updates) or frontend level (in Safari updates). These updates are > usually unannounced and it can happen at minor or major updates, and > whatever they break is often not fixed, or fixes are very slow coming. > 2. Performance of WebGL on Safari is generally poor > 3. Due to poin #1 and the accumulation of quirks, broken things and > lack of features working with WebGL on Safari is very cumbersome > > Modelo (https://modelo.io/) has dropped WebGL support entirely for Apple > devices. Inzept3D (https://inzept3d.com/) is struggling to justify the > engineering effort required to make things work on Apple devices, since the > payoff at best is a severely restricted/dumbed down implementation that > runs slowly. > > Doubtlessly others have experienced similar issues. It is a sorry state of > affairs that Apples WebGL implementation is so unsatisfactory, for WebGL is > meant as something that "just works" (that's the "Web" part in WebGL). > > I'd plead for Apple to make things right, and become an excellent WebGL > citizen offering a compelling implementation that achieves a high > conformance level, few quirks and good performance. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pya...@ Tue Jan 8 08:16:20 2019 From: pya...@ (=?UTF-8?Q?Florian_B=C3=B6sch?=) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 17:16:20 +0100 Subject: [Public WebGL] Safari WebGL issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 1:28 PM Javi Agenjo wrote: > Their official response will be that they are migrating to WebGPU and do > not want to put more resources in WebGL. > Unfortunately an initial release of WebGPU is years out, and a general support level akin to WebGL will likely take a decade or so. So WebGL is all we are going to have for 3D on the web until 2030 or so... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kbr...@ Tue Jan 8 10:37:47 2019 From: kbr...@ (Ken Russell) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 10:37:47 -0800 Subject: [Public WebGL] Safari WebGL issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let's not hypothesize about Apple's response. Apple participates actively in the WebGL working group, and has made strides to improve their WebGL support in recent months - integrating ANGLE to provide WebGL-compatible OpenGL ES 2.0 and 3.0 semantics, to be able to support WebGL 2.0. Google is collaborating actively with Apple on these efforts. If you have concrete test cases that show either compatibility or performance issues on any WebGL implementation, please file a bug about it, either on the https://github.com/KhronosGroup/WebGL issue tracker or on the browser's bug database directly. It is most helpful, and greatly appreciated, to contribute a conformance test to https://github.com/KhronosGroup/WebGL for compatibility issues that aren't already caught by the suite; for performance issues, feel free to contribute a sample under sdk/tests/extra/ which demonstrates it. I haven't personally seen lots of WebGL performance issues on Safari on either macOS or iOS, and wonder whether some of these might be related to the JavaScript engine. Let's try to tease them out and narrow them down. Sketchfab, Shadertoy and many other WebGL sites work beautifully on iOS, and I am hopeful that WebGL 2.0 will be universally deployed everywhere, providing a good baseline of graphics functionality on the web. -Ken On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 8:17 AM Florian B?sch wrote: > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 1:28 PM Javi Agenjo wrote: > >> Their official response will be that they are migrating to WebGPU and do >> not want to put more resources in WebGL. >> > > Unfortunately an initial release of WebGPU is years out, and a general > support level akin to WebGL will likely take a decade or so. So WebGL is > all we are going to have for 3D on the web until 2030 or so... > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: